Curse

Jeff Highwind · Sep 24, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I know this sounds somewhat (hell, extremely) odd, but I've been contemplating this idea ever since I got that Firey Sunspear of Shelter from the Nightfall bonus. I've noticed that most casters have been demanding a one-handed weapon with the +5 energy mod for some time in Kaineng. After using the bonus spear with my Ele during the PvE event, I've noticed some potential perks that the mages would enjoy.

Keep in mind that this is all just ideas I have thought up on the fly. If you have done extensive research that outdoes mine, feel free to post it as well.

1. Prefix/suffix perks.
This is just somthing minor I thought of but figured it may be useful. Basically you get access to mods like Shelter, Enchanting and Fortitude while getting the offhand benefits as well (Greens especially with the +1 attribute). Though in the end the combined +5 from the spear and the +12 from the offhand only equates to a 2~7 energy difference (Depending on mods on the staff), This theory leads to my next potential benefit...

2. The Zealous mod.
The one mod that staff/wand users don't benefit from at all. Spears (from what I remember) have access to the zealous mod and this can provide some potentially great energy management when your energy runs low. The only problem is that before spears came around, the zealous mod was useless since sword/axe weapons required you to melee to make use of the zealous mod. Spears though, they work like a one-handed shorbow so you can abuse the zealous mod if energy denial or recharge on spells give you downtime.

3. Range
I mentioned this in the zealous mod but I thought it might be worth mentioning again. Attacking with a spear gives you the benefit of range. While it may not seem like much, you can utilize this for pulling under the right height conditions and still stay safely behind your tank wall.

There may be more benefits to this, but I haven't done much research on the idea. Any thoughts/speculations?

Sep 24, 2006, 07:17 PM // 19:17

I think the zealous spear may be a usable switch set for casters(I was thinking I may need some for my casters. At the same time, it couldn't be used to waste displacement very well since you are giving up a pip of energy for it, so you would still need a wand, staff or another +5 e spear. It would also require finding a good target in ranger that doesn't have aegis guardian etc up so you can actually hit with the spear. Still I'm a +5 E weapon RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO so I am interested in the spead as well....

The Fox · Sep 26, 2006, 04:18 AM // 04:18

Wouldn't a zealous short bow be superior since it has a faster attack speed? IMO unless your switching when you have absolutly zero energy you're not going to come out ahead since casters... cast all of the time or kite.

Zui · Sep 26, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fox

Wouldn't a zealous short bow be superior since it has a faster attack speed? IMO unless your switching when you have absolutly zero energy you're not going to come out ahead since casters... cast all of the time or kite.

If you're going to use it for energy gain... A Spear would be better. You see, short bows have a 2s refire rate, whereas spears take 1.5s between attacks. Both spears and shortbows have the same range.

Jeff Highwind · Sep 26, 2006, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fox

Wouldn't a zealous short bow be superior since it has a faster attack speed? IMO unless your switching when you have absolutly zero energy you're not going to come out ahead since casters... cast all of the time or kite.

I specified the Spear since you still get the benefit of your Offhand while using it to garner energy. Using a Shortbow you only get +5 energy and any pre/suffix mod, while with the Spear you get the +5e, Pre/suffix, and the 12e from the Offhand and any perks from that (HCT's, HRT's, HP, etc).

Jetdoc · Sep 26, 2006, 01:55 PM // 13:55

I believe that spears will replace swords/axes as the primary caster item of choice, because they at least allow the caster to attack from a distance.

If the transferrable inscription comes to pass, the most sought after caster weapon will likely be a no requirement 7-10 damage (or the like) white spear with a +5 energy mod attached to it.

Jeff Highwind · Sep 26, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Can a spear like that have the max energy mod though? I am not quite clear on the new salvage thing that's going on.

And I did well over 20 damage with the Firey Sunspear of Shelter, so that may be a common option.

Jetdoc · Sep 26, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

The current answer is no - a no requirement item cannot have a max modifier.

However, if the speculated changes occur, you will be able to transfer any inherent modifier to any weapon (other than probably greens, quest reward and collector items). So, the +5 energy modifier would be salvagable and you could apply it to any spear.

Effigy · Sep 26, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

While casters would be able to "wand" targets while also getting the benefits from weapon mods, most will not have points to spend in the spear skill so the damage done would be minimal.

I suppose you could throw spears at enemies in PvP as a chaff for Displacement and RoF, but the damage would be inconsequential. You'd still need a wand linked to one of your attributes if you wanted to do damage.

Master Fuhon · Sep 26, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Some caster builds can take advantage of the inherent +5 or -5 energy mods on spears, as well as the ability to fit an enchantment length increasing or fortitude mod.

Adrenaline based caster builds are probably not going to become more common any time soon, but I occasionally see "Bonettis Defense" on healing monks with adrenaline built up from sword attacks and taking damage (spear should work better). Lyric of Zeal (Paragon Motivation chant) apparently doesn't require much of an investment in Motivation to get some energy from using signets, Signet of Devotion/Boon Signet/Signet of Rejuvenation. Doesn't make putting points in Spear Mastery worthwhile though...

Obviously, wanding with a specced attribute would be the best method for adrenaline gain for a caster. I don't know about the timing with wanding right now if you are a warrior. But for builds with Order of Pain/Vampire that require physical damage, spear throwing will be better than wanding.

Etrik · Oct 01, 2006, 04:01 PM // 16:01

This isn't odd, it's old mate. Alot of people have been using a combo similar to the following for PvP: [Random non-vamp/zealous prefix] Sword/Axe of Enchanting/Fort+30 and a 20/20 off-hand.

That way you get the perks of an Insightful 20/20 Staff of Fort, but you get 2 extra energy. You do, however, lack the (moderately low, but still some) damage output of your staff, sine you'll generally do 0-2 damage with the sword/axe as a caster.

Jetdoc · Oct 06, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

+5 Energy spears do exist....

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10045067

Looks like the HoD sword and other +5 energy swords are now obsolete. I personally will be interested to see how the inscription thing pans out...if so, I got a lot of white farming to do.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 06, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

+5 Energy spears do exist....

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10045067

Looks like the HoD sword and other +5 energy swords are now obsolete. I personally will be interested to see how the inscription thing pans out...if so, I got a lot of white farming to do.

Yeah, the whole point is that we know they exist and are talking about how useful they are.

As for usefulness, I plan on getting a +5 spear of enchanting for my ele to complement my selection of offhands. A negative energy spear is also going to be great for hiding energy on casters that do that (ether prodigy>deb shot), and I see no reason why people would use a sword now beyond cosmetic reasons.

Effigy · Oct 06, 2006, 08:15 PM // 20:15

The spear does have some advantages over a sword/axe on a caster, but those advantages seem so minimal that I'm not sure if it really matters which you choose. In PvP, you could use spear attacks to wear down Displacement faster, but that already dies very quickly; you could also use it as chaff for RoF, but the likelihood of RoF being triggered by your spear rather than some other damage isn't that high. Since most casters will not spec Spear Mastery, you will still need a wand swap if you want to deal any damage.

The only major advantage of the spear is charging adrenal skills. I can see this being useful on a **/P or the occasional **/W, but otherwise I'd say just go for the skin you like best. I'll probably get +5e/-5e spears for my monk in case I want to tinker with a Mo/P build though.

deathy · Oct 07, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

The answer is yes. Even if its only slighter better than an axe/sword, its still better, so especially for pvp characters, why put yourself at an disadvantage?

dansamy · Oct 08, 2006, 06:48 AM // 06:48

I will definitely be switching to a spear. I might even sell my near perfect Gothic Dual Axe (*gasp*). (It's a 14%/-5e that I got for free from a chest. Yay me!)

Zui · Oct 08, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

I will definitely be switching to a spear. I might even sell my near perfect Gothic Dual Axe (*gasp*). (It's a 14%/-5e that I got for free from a chest. Yay me!)

I'm curious, why are you going to use a Spear over an Axe? The energy gain from a Zealous version is probably not a great deal, all things considered. The minimal damage you could do is not really that much, either. What am I missing that makes a +5 or -5 spear better than a sword or axe equivilent?

Amity and Truth · Oct 08, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Attack from distance.
Your no damage spear could hit that reversal of fortune which would else have triggered on something more powerful.

Jeff Highwind · Oct 08, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Yea I mentioned range on the first post.

dansamy · Oct 08, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

I'm curious, why are you going to use a Spear over an Axe? The energy gain from a Zealous version is probably not a great deal, all things considered. The minimal damage you could do is not really that much, either. What am I missing that makes a +5 or -5 spear better than a sword or axe equivilent?

Two reasons: ranged attack and my +5e spear is free. (Preorder item) Since I perfer to have them match (yes, I know), I'll switch to a spear for my -5e as well.